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Author: vikings

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Post time 30-1-2013 03:19:14 |Show all posts
another bug

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Post time 30-1-2013 04:21:23 |Show all posts
For me its Bugs...
From the first is
he cant call back his own hero from the oasis.....
make abig different ....

IF its me i m very dissapointed too
Dont Remember This Is Just Game

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Post time 30-1-2013 08:45:34 |Show all posts
lol rank bonus/skillbook bonus only apply to own troops. unless that 3m def are all yours, else the br is definitely right. attacker got all the max encourage,inf, cav, arc skills. the so call pro doesn't seem that pro. should be pro at backstabbing, avoiding war, complaining.

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Post time 30-1-2013 12:17:37 |Show all posts
GeorgeBush replied at 30-1-2013 10:07
The attacker is also a general. Which annuls that factor as a significant reason. He merely gets a ...


Here, let me show you some middle school math.

Let's assume the worst possible situation for Zeus: all attacker units considered as infantry type (1 impguard = 2.5 glaives, 1 xbow = 2 glaives) and all defending units are swordsman(35 infD, worst inf def type in the game, spears are even better at 40).

And let's assume further that the defenders are all from other players and hence no title or lord bonus, no iron wall bonus and also no position bonus, but wall bonus applies to all defenders and I see no reason why Zeus wouldn't have a wall there. For the attacker, let's give him 70% encourage max, 60% bonus from inf/cav/arch leader, which is probably too generous IMO, but it doesn't matter for the sake of considering the worst possible scenario. Also general title and position together gives another 100% attack bonus, so the attacker receives 330% of his actual attacking power.

Here is the calculation:
Attacker: 380k (real glaives) + 425k (170k impguards = 425k glaives) + 360k (180k xbows = 360k glaives) = 1.165m glaives = 60 * 1.165m = 69.9m
69.9m * all bonuses (330%) = 230.67m inf attack


Defender: 3.9m * 35 = 136.5m
Wu wall bonus = 64%
Lost duel = -10%
136.5m * all bonuses (164%-10% = 154%) = 210.21m inf def


Even in the worst case, attacker can only win by a hair. Now let's see even in this worst case scenario, does the BR make sense?

Troop loss is a convex function of the troop strength percentage (let's just denote it as %) to reflect the "more troops less loss" principle. An example to illustrate if troop loss is a linear function:
(1) 500 guards vs 100 hinf:
attack power = 500*70 = 35k
def power = 100*65 = 6.5k
% = 6.5/35 = .186 ==> attacker troop loss = 500*.186 = 93

(2) 1000 guards vs 100 hinf:
attack power = 70*1000 = 70k
def power = 100*65 = 6.5k
% = 6.5/70 = .093 ==> attacker troop loss = 1000*.093 = 93

However this does not make sense, since more troops should lead to less loss for the attacker, so the % should be raised to a power bigger than one. Let's assume it to be 2 (which is too big to be true and just an extreme value for the sake of considering a worst case scenario for Zeus).

So now in Zeus' case:
% = 210.21/230.67 = .911
%-squared(%*%) = .83 ==> attacker's minimum theoretic loss = 730k*.83 = 605.9k > 485.66k = actual loss

So even if we consider the worst possible case, the battle result still is impossible. Not to mention:

a) the actual case in which Zeus probably has his own defenders in the city, which will enjoy lord + title + position bonuses, giving higher def;

b) there could be lots of other better units other than swordsman from supports, heavy cav, heavy inf, lancers, which all have better def;

c) the conversion of all the attacker's troops to infantry type lowers Zeus' actual def ability in consideration, since when calculating the battle result, a weighted average of inf D and cav D is summed by the respective inf/cav proportion of the attacker, and thus by putting 0 weight on Zeus' cav D (which could be way larger than the number we got in previous discussion) we significantly underestimate the actul def power.

So I don't even have to look at the actual report to know that this is a bug, simply because there is no way that the battle result could have been what it was considering the actual situation is much better for Zeus than the worst possible case we discussed. In other words, no matter what, THIS BATTLE RESULT IS MATHEMATICALLY WRONG

Numbers speak and math does not lie. For those who say that this battle is not a bug PROVE IT OTHERWISE OR BE KORAM'S BITCH
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Post time 30-1-2013 13:45:14 |Show all posts
falcony replied at 30-1-2013 12:17
Here, let me show you some middle school math.

Let's assume the worst possible situation for Zeus ...

nice maths

however concerning

(2) 1000 guards vs 1000 hinf:
attack power = 70*1000 = 70k
def power = 100*65 = 6.5k
% = 6.5/70 = .093 ==> defender troop loss = 1000*.093 = 93


you have 1000 hinf vs 1000 guards but your calculations has 100hinf
100*65= 6.5k and 1000*65 = 65k

which means %=65/70=93 ==> defender troop loss = 1000*0.93 = 930

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Post time 30-1-2013 14:24:04 |Show all posts
EmperorXian replied at 31-1-2013 04:45
nice maths

however concerning


that was a typo, should be 100 hinfs and i corrected it

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Post time 30-1-2013 16:40:20 |Show all posts
as far as I know,  the defense bonus only apply on defender troops from the city.. please correct me if i'm wrong ( I'm also not sure , need some one to confirm that).

and from the battle report, the troops from that city are 12 sword infantry and 800 rams and 5K demolishers.

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Post time 30-1-2013 17:07:58 |Show all posts
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Post time 30-1-2013 17:35:14 |Show all posts
nasris_light replied at 31-1-2013 08:07
Yes, but if he has defense from his own sub cities then they too would receive his bonus

Just to add to what Nasris said subcities from Zeus account would show up in the supporting troops areas as they are supporting from other cities.

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Post time 30-1-2013 17:43:43 |Show all posts
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Post time 31-1-2013 03:13:57 |Show all posts
falcony replied at 31-1-2013 03:17
Here, let me show you some middle school math.

Let's assume the worst possible situation for Zeus ...


I think the problem lies in the assumptions. I cannot go deep into calculations but just to help you with it...

1) Weaponsmith bonus (+15% for attacker)
2) Advanced attack token (extra 10% atop EO for attacker)
3) Defender was restricted (-10% for defender)
4) Assigning heroes to position will only give it a 50% bonus, not 100%. Not assigning a hero, will cause the player not to have any nobility bonus. (-50% on both sides)
5) There is NO cap on skills, which means he can stack inf/cav/arch leader without restrictions.
6) Wu's wall has 81% bonus.

4 and 5 has been told to me by the developer.

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Post time 31-1-2013 08:58:15 |Show all posts
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The one and only noob - Dum_Dum - u32 Emp

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Post time 31-1-2013 14:32:54 |Show all posts
GeorgeBush replied at 31-1-2013 18:13
I think the problem lies in the assumptions. I cannot go deep into calculations but just to help y ...


You are right it was all about assumptions in my calculation, but we were assuming all the worst situations for Zeus to check whether the battle result made sense, and if it didn't in the worst case, then it wouldn't be right in any other better case.

Given the points you brought up, the result wouldn't be much different:

1) lvl 20 weaponsmith/armorsmith gives about 34% or 1/3 on top of a unit's base stat(+1.5% each level according to official stats, so lvl 20 = 1.015^20 = 1.347), but unless supporting defenders are mostly unupgraded(which is very unlikely for a U server in its second merger), everything is just scaled up by 1.34 for both the attacker and defender, doesn't change anything;

2) in that case, let's just say attacker used advanced attack token and Zeus used none(I'm making Zeus look like a total noob lol), so it's +20% for the attacker;

3) already figured into my previous calculation;

4) this can only be bad for the attacker in our calculation, since I did not give Zeus any other bonus except wall, so it's -50% for the attacker;

5) still, from experience, my estimate that there is 130% boost from encourage and inf/cav/arch skills combined holds (which is even probably too high), unless the attacker is super heavy gold like Cabe or Jedi and can show screenshots of higher stats;

6) wu has 64% bonus at level 20, wei has 81%, according to in-game stats.

Then let's repeat the previous calculation with our updated information:

Attacker's total bonus = 50% (title + position) + 130% (skills) +20% (Adv. atk token) + 100% (base stats) = 300%
Attacker: 380k (real glaives) + 425k (170k impguards = 425k glaives) + 360k (180k xbows = 360k glaives) = 1.165m glaives = 60 * 1.165m = 69.9m
69.9m * attacker's total bonus (300%) = 209.7m inf attack

Defender's total bonus = 64% (wall) + 100% (base stats) - 10% (lost duel) = 154%
Defender: 3.9m * 35 = 136.5m
Wu wall bonus = 64%
Lost duel = -10%
136.5m * defender's total bonus (164%-10% = 154%) = 210.21m inf def


209.7m < 210.21m

Attacker LOSES now

If this is not a bug, then I don't know what it is.
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Post time 31-1-2013 15:22:38 |Show all posts
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Post time 31-1-2013 15:38:57 |Show all posts
nasris_light replied at 1-2-2013 06:22
if it isn't a bug, it's just more proof of attack being overpowered perhaps?

I think there can be a lot of counter examples to that argument, it will be very easy to find a report in which 700k-ish wei attackers crash into 1.5m or less defenders. Although it is true that title/skillbooks/tokens for both sides figure into the equation, but the difference in outcomes shouldn't be THIS BIG. Now 700k-ish shu attackers crushed 4m defense and still had 200k+ left, this is something I have never seen in my 3 years of tko experience, nor does it make any mathematical sense. So the only explanation I can come up is that it is a bug.

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Post time 31-1-2013 16:36:31 |Show all posts
umm can it be confirmed that there was some recent significant event in L2 war? heard someone lost jus under 1mil attack wave

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Post time 1-2-2013 00:24:25 |Show all posts
First of all I had over 150k of my own heavy cavs there and more than 1.8 million of my own defense.....
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Great u50 war! Thanks to all of the L2 warriors! Thank you for the support and hard work over the course of the past two years! It was truly a privilege and my honor to get to know and fight alongside all of you! To L1 - great job taking the wall down - true POWER~

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Post time 1-2-2013 00:25:13 |Show all posts
mostly spears.

and numerous people tried sending me hero's with troops, it would tell you the same thing "cannot send hero", though there were only 8 total hero's in city
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Great u50 war! Thanks to all of the L2 warriors! Thank you for the support and hard work over the course of the past two years! It was truly a privilege and my honor to get to know and fight alongside all of you! To L1 - great job taking the wall down - true POWER~

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Post time 1-2-2013 00:26:15 |Show all posts
scroll for defense was activated, also 50% bonus and LoQ bonus and +20% defense token LOL
Great u50 war! Thanks to all of the L2 warriors! Thank you for the support and hard work over the course of the past two years! It was truly a privilege and my honor to get to know and fight alongside all of you! To L1 - great job taking the wall down - true POWER~

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Post time 1-2-2013 00:47:01 |Show all posts
mattao replied at 1-2-2013 15:24
First of all I had over 150k of my own heavy cavs there and more than 1.8 million of my own defense. ...

Bro if you had more than 1.8m of your own def in there, that alone would probably have made you the winner if everything was normal. So I am guessing the bug (the one that was making you not able to put more heroes in the city) led to a lot more serious effects in your city, either causing a majority of your defenders to lose def abilities or giving you negative bonuses for your def. I cannot say what exactly led to the result, but it was definitely a bug and a very bad one. I think at this point you should ask Koram to give you an explanation for what happened AND ask for compensations. If they don't comply, then I wouldn't want to continue to be a Koram customer if I were you.

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